To flourish, innovation hubs need the right combination of talent, tech, funding, and market access. Rob and Jackie sat down with Jessica Corrigan, the director of M&T's Tech Academy, to discuss how smaller regions can become powerful innovation ecosystems.

Mentioned

• Robert D. Atkinson, “Comments to the Commerce Department Regarding Implementation of the Regional Technology and Innovation Hub Program,” (ITIF, March 2023).

Related

• Matt Ashare, “At M&T Bank, modernization and talent strategies intersect in the cloud,” (CIO Dive, June 2023).
• Robert D. Atkinson, “Understanding the U.S. National Innovation System, 2020,” (ITIF, November 2023).

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Rob Atkinson: Welcome to Innovation Files. I'm Rob Atkinson, founder and president of the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation.

Jackie Whisman: And I'm Jackie Whisman. I head development at ITIF, which I'm proud to say is the world's top ranked think tank for science and technology policy.

Rob Atkinson: And this podcast is about the kinds of issues we cover at ITIF from the broad economics of innovation to specific policy and regulatory questions about new technologies. So if you're into this stuff, please be sure to subscribe and rate us.

Jackie Whisman: Today we're talking to Jessica Corrigan, the director of M&T's Tech Academy, which is a flagship workforce initiative for M&T. They're one of western New York's largest companies. She's based in Buffalo and is here to discuss the region's tech ecosystem, which is one of Rob and my favorite things to chat about. Welcome.

Jessica Corrigan: Wonderful. Thanks so much for having me all. Really looking forward to the conversation today.

Jackie Whisman: So maybe we can get into a little bit about the history of Buffalo to set the stage. It was a major industrial center in the late 1960s, really emblematic the Rust Belt, now perhaps in maybe an innovation recovery period. Can you talk about that a little bit?

Jessica Corrigan: Yeah, thanks for that Jackie. It's interesting because when I think of Buffalo, I think it's exactly what you shared. We're kind of in an innovation recovery. I really think that innovation is something that is in Buffalo's, DNA. I mean, gosh, we revolutionized and transformed not just industries but lives. When I think of the invention of air conditioning and the windshield wiper and even the first machine powered grain elevator. Although those are things that we're really used to and are part of common everyday life now, when they first arrived, they were really game changers in a lot of capacities. And when me and Rob were first hopping on and we were chatting through some things just a few minutes ago, we were even talking about the Erie canal and just accessibility to Lake Erie as a whole really created this opportunity to become almost like a port city.

And it really allowed for trade and product development in a really innovative and new way because not only could we create a lot of different types of products and needs for individuals here through the advanced manufacturing corridor, we now had the ability to drive trade across a very large geographic region. I was thinking, and even as I was prepping for this podcast and doing some research, we lost something astonishing close to 70,000 jobs between 1970 and 1984 for various economic regions, specifically in advanced manufacturing. And that's where we see that happening in Cleveland. We saw it happen in Detroit and Buffalo and a lot of these Rust Belt cities lost a lot of this major industry for a whole variety of reasons. But it's been incredible to be... I'm a Buffalo native, so I've lived here my entire life, left for a little bit recently in the last five years, came back, but really see this immense transformation that is starting to happen within technology and innovation and entrepreneurship as a whole because I really think we see a lot of linkage between those industries.

We have something close to now about 14,500 jobs and rising in tech specifically not even hitting on innovation or entrepreneurship specifically, and that's expected to rise by upwards of 4% in the next 10 years. So we're starting to see this real slow and steady uptick through the development and commitment from business and organizations who are committed to bringing in different folks of that nature. And it's really an exciting time for Buffalo again in this city of light with now, well, more than tow million light bulbs.

Rob Atkinson: As we were talking before, and I don't know how many people listening now have ever been to Buffalo or know the history, but it's a pretty amazing place because early on it was one of the centers of US industrial development. It was also much of the built environment was designed by Frederick Law Olmsted who designed Central Park, and if you go to Buffalo, you'll just see that kind of amazing landscape architecture and building architecture. But I have to confess and Jackie knows what a complete wonk I am. I did read a book many years ago, which I thought was a great book called The Rise and Decline of Buffalo, and it was a UB, University of Buffalo economist. It was very interesting because he talked about how just all the strengths Buffalo had and how partly through a combination of internal forces, but mostly external forces, a lot of that competitive advantage just got lost.

It used to be a major steel place and now it's not. It had a lot of manufacturing, a lot of that went to the south and then a second big wave when China and all. But what's interesting is it does seem like perhaps in difference with some places like maybe Flint that took the hit and really don't seem to be coming back. It was like a blow that maybe knocked the city out. Buffalo took the blows, if you will, but it also seems now like it's coming back. What do you think is behind that? Why are technology companies and entrepreneurs in Buffalo, coming to Buffalo, growing in Buffalo? What's changed?

Jessica Corrigan: Oh my gosh. So many things, Rob, when I stop and think about it. When you're driving through downtown, there's just big, I think, economic renaissance that's happening in Buffalo for a lot of reasons, even outside of tech and innovation. And there's this big mural on the side of one of the buildings that says, "Keep Buffalo a secret." And every time I drive by it, I laugh because I'm like, yeah, all of us who live here know that we have something really, really, really special. And I think it could be a lot of reasons. I mean, first of all, geographically, we are really in a lot of ways one of these places that has a great cost of living, which in return produces a great cost of doing business. So we have all this beautiful architecture and infrastructure that can support business, but for a much more accessible price point.

We also have a great geographic location that puts us in great proximity to a lot of talent. We think about we're less than three hours away from Toronto, 40 minute flight away from New York. We're really situated in this great way to be close to a lot of talent too. We also have to a lot of diverse talent. So I think something I'm sure you're aware of, Rob and Jackie, is that we have a great and really beautiful immigrant refugee population here would come with diverse experiences and diverse perspectives from around the world that contribute to this really interesting heartbeat culturally that I feel is hard to find in many other parts of the world.

You then layer in this real commitment that the people have who live here. I think there's a real grit in pride in Buffalo. We always say that an acceptable greeting anywhere in the world that you go and you see someone in any type of Buffalo Bills gear is Go Bills. It can be hello, it can be goodbye, it can be how are you? It's just this real love for this space and people coming together to build something really unique. Organizations like 43North are attracting new talent, new businesses, new innovative ways of thinking to help contribute to the things that we're talking about now. The great cost of living and doing business, the accessibility to great and diverse talent. And I think the right employers, the right organizations are starting to come in and cultivate this real opportunity for collaboration to scale.

Rob Atkinson: And don't forget, you have the lake, which is pretty cool. I think there's a lot of places that have similar things but don't have the lake when voting, and that's pretty cool. Before we got on, I was looking at Realtor.com and some houses in Buffalo, and there's one that I was looking at was bigger than the house I live in Bethesda, Maryland outside of D.C. Four bedrooms, 2 1/2 baths, 1/4 acre lot, $335,000. It's like if you're in Washington D.C, you could buy nothing for $335,000.

Jackie Whisman: Do you think that that drives a lot of these expansions of tech hubs and innovation ecosystems? Because to Rob's point, I grew up in D.C. I moved during COVID to a very affordable part of Maryland, but it seems like that is now the norm rather than, oh, more of a diversification of the innovation ecosystem, maybe because people feel a little more mobile. Do you think that's the case?

Jessica Corrigan: Oh, I mean, yeah, absolutely, Jackie. It's amazing. The median home price in Buffalo is $175,000. And I have been fortunate enough to travel and live in many different parts of the world with previous employers that I worked with. I have never seen an area like Rob, what you shared, where you can own a beautiful home for a fraction of the cost. And then you have the lake. When you're up on the 23rd floor at the tech academy in Seneca One, and you look out, it looks like an ocean. And you watch sailboats come in and out, and there's really cool restaurants that are starting to pop up, and there's really interesting shops that are starting to pop up.

And it's really like, wow, when we get new talent in, because we do do a lot of recruiting, not just in Buffalo and Western New York, but outside of Buffalo too, to attract top tech talent into M&T. And I interface with a lot of that talent coming through the tech academy. And more often than not, our conversations are rooted in when they're first arriving, how they can't believe how their quality of life has elevated so significantly since moving to a place like Buffalo where they still have a lot of accessibility to the perks of living in a place like D.C or New York or San Francisco as far as entertainment and things like that goes. But you can get a lot more on a lot less, which is just great for everyone.

Jackie Whisman: But it's hard to do without a good talent pipeline. And so a lot of times you see these hubs anchored by Stanford University or something like that. D.C has a lot of great universities too, but what's the role of University of Buffalo in your innovation ecosystem? Do you rely heavily on their R&D and STEM programs?

Jessica Corrigan: Yeah. UB is such an amazing partner. I really admire what they're doing there through all of their innovation efforts and programs. The innovation labs and R&D and just really impressive. I mean, gosh, we could talk for a half hour alone on what they contribute, UB and their students. We do a lot of even recruiting for tech talent. M&T has a program called the Technology Development Program, and it is a program that recruits top talent from all over the nation, but a very high percentage of those students come from UB. And we also are adjacently located to other top institutions too, like the Rochester Institute of Technology, which is also a great resource for us to have virtually in our backyard an hour and 15 minutes outside of Buffalo. So when we think of these great universities and the expertise that they contribute to their students and then their students come and join us and start this path of career trajectory in Buffalo, we've seen it elevate even our own internal business significantly.

Rob Atkinson: It's interesting. Yeah, the whole role that universities play. ITIF was instrumental in getting a provision of the Chips and Science Act, which passed last year, provision in there called the Regional Innovation Hubs Program. So that was our idea. That was my idea. Not that I'm bragging, Jackie helped with it too. That was my idea.

Jackie Whisman: If we do say so ourselves, it was brilliant.

Rob Atkinson: If we say so ourselves.

Jessica Corrigan: I mean, it sounds brilliant.

Rob Atkinson: Oh, it's beyond brilliant. And the reason we did it is because we found, and we ended up doing a report with Brookings on it that almost all of the tech jobs were growing in a very narrow number of places. Silicon Valley, Boston, my son's just going up to Boston for his PhD and Seattle. Good for them, I'm not knocking them. But what we nearly need in the country is we need more places that can serve as self-sustaining technology hubs. And the reality, and some people might not like it, is there are certain places that will not and cannot do that, and they're just not... Phil English is our board chair from Erie, Pennsylvania. Phil get mad at me if I say that places like Erie might not be able to do it, but a place like Buffalo could, and what we argue in this paper, in this report was there are places like Buffalo that have real advantages, reasonably okay airport, nice quality of life, good university, enough technology jobs that it's not like you're going in the middle of the desert.

And so what we propose is a program where the federal government will for five years, and now I hope Buffalo's has applied for this because the Department of Commerce is taking applications, if you win for five years, you get a consistent amount of money from the feds to build up your innovation ecosystem. And then it could be complemented with an award program from the National Science Foundation with their technology innovation partnership program. But anyway, long way of saying we really believe that there are places that are doing well, but they haven't quite broken through. And if the feds could come in and really help give a little bit of seed money, help catalyze existing local with regional support and state support, you could see a place like Buffalo move up to that level, kind of like an arts research triangle park, for example. I'm just curious if that's your take as well.

Jessica Corrigan: Yeah, it's really interesting, Rob. I definitely believe in the vision. Mike Wisler, our CIO always says that we are in a race for relevance. That we are really in this race to become in all these other smaller cities too, that have the same level or potential as Buffalo does to kind of break through as a tech ecosystem. And I see this real life tangible magic happening, for lack of a better term. There's two assets that we have in the ecosystem too on top of things that, like you described, maybe an opportunity to seek some federal backing and support to really turn up the volume. And I think that could even be done really acutely. And that work is being done already in various degrees through two organizations.

The first is Tech Buffalo, who I think so highly of. They're run by Sarah Tambucci, and they are designated to be an ecosystem convener. So to work with the businesses, to work with the universities, to work with the training providers, to work with the economic development agencies like Empire State Development and Invest Buffalo Niagara to connect the dots. To be like, okay, what's everybody doing and how are we all moving towards this really major common role? Then you bring in a partner like Invest Buffalo Niagara, who I just think so highly of those folks and what they're doing for economic development in the region, and they are running a huge campaign right now called Be in Buffalo. It's been ongoing. There's no end to the campaign. We'll stop when we don't have enough space for everybody, or we're booming through the roof economically, but they're really going out and making Buffalo become a destination. So the talent, the business, the opportunities, like what you're describing, Rob through the federal government, they're just out there tackling opportunities for us to then take and run with.

And I see this real commitment to partnership. And I don't want to say that other cities don't have that, maybe they do. But something that I admire in Buffalo is just the real sense of camaraderie between the organizations, whether it's 43North or University of Buffalo or Buffalo Niagara Medical Campus and what they're doing in innovation, the Tech Academy, invest Buffalo Niagara, or even Forge Buffalo, who's focused heavily on getting the right talent to the right businesses and tech and innovation. There's a real core group of contributors that are all working and rowing consistently towards the same goal and outcome, which is thriving rock solid ecosystem. And I really do believe in the longer cycles we're going to get there.

Rob Atkinson: Yeah, that's really interesting. One of the points we made in our report and also in a filing we made, they're either a filing or a follow on blog for the Department of Commerce was that what you're talking about is it's not enough, but if you don't have what you have, it's not even worth bothering for the federal government to support a place. If a place cannot get its act together to systematically and closely work together, all the federal money in the world will not do the trick. But if you have your act together, which it sounds like you do, then that's the kind of place in our view that the fed should be supporting. And you'd be surprised a lot of places do well, but there are still places where the suburbs hate the central city and this organization doesn't get along with this organization or this university thinks it's too good to really be part of the community. You go on and on and on. So having that ecosystem is sort of the rock solid foundation you have to have. And it sounds great that you have that now.

Jessica Corrigan: Yeah, it's really been inspirational. Me and my husband decided, and we really planted a flag like, okay, we're going to stay in Buffalo. And I think there was a very real time directionally over the last five to 10 years when I was in my late 20s and we were really thinking, is this where we're going to stay? Is there going to be the right opportunity? And the answer has proven time and time again to be yes. Even I think of the work that we're doing with M&T, we're really deeply committed to turning even our own tech hubs into community assets. We have our tech hub at Seneca One where we're co-located with other tech businesses such as Odoo and Lighthouse Technologies. We are all together. And then we just recently opened up a second tech hub just on the road from us Lafayette Court. And yes, we're very acutely focused. I even think of my team's scope on supporting our 2300 technologists across our global footprint with the bulk of them being in Buffalo, acutely focused on them, but also acutely focused on the community side of it too.

I think part of our secret sauce, if you will, is that we're really committed not just to creating opportunities for adults, whether that's someone coming from a traditional tech background like a computer science major coming out of UB, but we're also really committed to non-traditional talent and helping them find their way into technology or tech adjacent roles through things like apprenticeship. We're also deeply committed though too, to the youth space, and I think that's something really unique for us economically is because we're not just trying to reach folks once they're adults and already in the workforce. We are committed to that, but we also understand that we have to start early and often and have repeat touch points in youth in order to help drive them into opportunities in the area and build up not just the present-day tech talent pool or innovation talent pool, but create a talent pool for longer cycles too. And that's what my team at the Tech Academy is acutely focused on on the community-facing side of things.

Jesana Gadley is one of my leaders that rolls up to me and her and her small but mighty team are really out creating how do we get middle schoolers engaged in coding? How do we create STEM experiences for all students living in Western New York, and how can we help this really young and impressionable group of future technologists realize their full potential? So it's not as much of a leap to say, "Oh yeah, I'm going to go to UB and I'm going to study engineering." Or "Oh yeah, like RIT feels and grasped to me." So I think we're deeply committed to winning this race for relevance over longer cycles as well.

Rob Atkinson: Interesting.

Jackie Whisman: I wanted to be sure to ask you about some Tech Academy success stories. If you could give us kind of a little glimpse into what you all are working on and how the graduates, if you will, or how do you describe them?

Jessica Corrigan: Yeah, no, that's a great question. So Jackie, we serve two primary audiences. So every single year we strive to hit about 75% of our internal tech talent and create learning journeys and upskilling and re-skilling opportunities for that talent. It is astonishing, as you both know how quickly tech skills change. We are training and continuously skilling and re-skilling our own technologists to help them keep up and then also drive their potential in their career trajectories. So looking to hit about 2000 technologists, give or take every year, quantifiable, measurable technical skills training. We then also serve the community. So we create opportunities for individuals, both adult and youth, like I shared, to find their way into technology. In the last 13 months alone, Jesana and her team have impacted over 780 youth living in Buffalo, in quantifiable, measurable technical skills and experiences, and of course our boot camp model.

So we've piloted a boot camp model that concluded in 2022, which was a 12 week experience for 19 adult learners coming from non-traditional backgrounds to go through a vigorous and rigorous upskilling and re-skilling opportunity in data and ultimately end up in a role in the ecosystem. So out of those 19 students, 15 of them ended up in full-time, permanent employment with local ecosystem employers. Three of them ended up going on to pursue two to four year degrees and one opted to stay in their industry they had come from, but in a more elevated opportunity, because they had technical skills. So we're really looking to continue to scale those opportunities both for our internal tech teams but also for community members while continuing to partner with others. We really believe that the Tech Academy occupies a unique space in the ecosystem where we never want to be a competitor, rather we want to be an uplifter of the great work that's already happening.

Our space comes free of charge to any community member within the ecosystem who wants to use it, even employers. So even employers are welcome to come in and utilize our very high tech space and continuing to even support other programs like run by Lori Brewer and our Nextgen talent team at M&T Tech such as Z Development Program. So it's a 15-month long program that's apprenticeship style for, again, non-traditional talent to find their way into tech. So although that's not an opportunity that the Tech Academy owns directly, it's one that we're in direct support of. And I think it's really neat to kind of be the leader of this amazing machine, especially as we've been acutely committed to operationalizing it since it's launch in 2020, but really turning up the volume on it since late 2021.

Rob Atkinson: No, that's really interesting. One of the things that we hold dear as a principle and its policy action is the US has advantages because we have a really important regional ecosystem of players and all, and we're just too big to do it all for Washington, obviously, but we need partnerships in Washington to play key roles and then groups like yours and the local ecosystem play key roles. We should close, but you mentioned one of the challenges is you have to keep up with your tech skills. I'm learning that acutely this week because I'm told I have to learn how... It took me years to learn Twitter and now I supposedly have to learn Threads. I don't even even know how to get on —

Jackie Whisman: I'm not doing it.

Rob Atkinson: ... Instagram. You got to help me get on Instagram Jackie. I have no idea.

Jackie Whisman: I'm letting threads lie for a little while, so I don't think you need to rush. Rob's a big TikTokker.

Jessica Corrigan: Oh, TikTok. Very cool. Well, I can help with the Instagram thing. I'm also a photographer as a personal passion, so if you need any help with the Instagram, Rob, I can be your support there.

Rob Atkinson: All right, thank you. By the way, Jackie, just to be clear, I've never posted on TikTok. I am only a consumer. I enjoy the diversity of the views I see.

Jackie Whisman: He loves to share TikToks.

Jessica Corrigan: That's great. Our household too. So if you ever find one that you like, Rob, make sure you send it my way.

Jackie Whisman: Oh gosh, you're going to be on his list now.

Rob Atkinson: You're going to be inundated. I send them all the time to my son.

Jessica Corrigan: I'm ready. It's an open invitation.

Rob Atkinson: All righty.

Jessica Corrigan: Rob, Jackie, if you're ever in the Buffalo area, please let us know, a personal invitation to come say hi to us. I'd love to host you and take you on a tour.

Jackie Whisman: Thank you.

Rob Atkinson: That'd be great. Thank you. So with that, Jessica, thank you so much for being with us. Really interesting conversation.

Jessica Corrigan: Thank you so much y'all for the opportunity. It's really been my pleasure.

Jackie Whisman: And that’s it for this week. If you liked it, please be sure to rate us and subscribe. Feel free to email show ideas or questions to [email protected]. You can find the show notes and sign up for our weekly email newsletter on our website itif.org. And follow us on Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn @ITIFdc. We'll figure out Rob's Threads name and add it.

Rob Atkinson: Yeah, we got to add Threads to that. All right, so we're going to have more episodes, more great guests. Hope you'll continue to tune in.

Jackie Whisman: Talk to you soon.